Curse

cataphract · Aug 19, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

If Ursan nerf drives people out of the game, then it's GG ANET. The more elitist noobs leave, the better for both the game and the community.

Carboplatin · Aug 19, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

the ursan nerf did drive alot of players out of the game... at least in DoA. Its a welcomed change to me as i like having a skillbar.

However, now the game is in jeoparty due to the fact that all the exclusive ursan players might or might not leaving the game. Assuming if the Ursan players decided to actually learn to play without the bear, then it was a good move. More actual skillbars, more diversity. However, the stubborn ursans totally quit the game, and i am afraid there are quite a few of them, the game get a drop in player base.. which could be bad for anet as well as everyone else left in game.

Trub · Aug 19, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Langdon

the ursan nerf did drive alot of players out of the game... at least in DoA. Its a welcomed change to me as i like having a skillbar.

However, now the game is in jeoparty due to the fact that all the exclusive ursan players might or might not leaving the game. Assuming if the Ursan players decided to actually learn to play without the bear, then it was a good move. More actual skillbars, more diversity. However, the stubborn ursans totally quit the game, and i am afraid there are quite a few of them, the game get a drop in player base.. which could be bad for anet as well as everyone else left in game.

I highly doubt that thousands of gamers, bought eotn just to UB...there are more details on the box than:
"BUY THIS!! BE A BEAR, AND BREEZE THRU THIS GAME!!!"
If any have left, it is because they were guildless, lazy, and or dense when it comes to adapting to online gaming.
ANet got thier money....they be a QQ'n all the way to the bank.
I say..good move ANet, this game needs more shaking up to keep it from getting stale.
But please, try to stick to the original spirit of the game.

Abedeus · Aug 19, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

If Ursan nerf drives people out of the game, then it's GG ANET. The more elitist noobs leave, the better for both the game and the community.

I think none of the Ursaners are elitists. It's a paradox, like I saying "All Europeans are liars!". Ursan = "casual" (hehehe), Elitist = not casual. Although people using that term use it just like "You Jew!" or "You idiot!", that is without sense or randomly.

Kusandaa · Aug 19, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I think none of the Ursaners are elitists. It's a paradox, like I saying "All Europeans are liars!". Ursan = "casual" (hehehe), Elitist = not casual. Although people using that term use it just like "You Jew!" or "You idiot!", that is without sense or randomly.

I met some heavy Ursan users that were pretty effing close to what I'd refer as an elitist; they only want W/Me R10 ursans, anything else is just a n00b scrub and deserves all the insults possible.

But really, anyone that feels like insulting any other person because of views on gameplay (lol teres only pvp/pve tats gud 2 play, u suck cuz u dont play what i play and how i play) is an elitist.

And it's indeed a paradox.

Shadowhaze · Aug 19, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Nerfs, buffs, and all that stuff isn't really the main problem in the game as far as I can see. Overall, people just need to lose the "noob" and "elitest" mentalities and be more open to things and people. Enjoy the game and have fun.

Someone pings a build you don't like, give them suggestions instead of calling them a "noob" and booting them off the bat. Give them a chance. If they refuse to listen or behave like a jerk, then do something.

I'm glad I have more than just one char, so I have a better chance of finding groups, since my main character isn't one of the "trinity." Not everyone has one of the three, which is annoying if they want to do something and end up getting called names. That's one reason Ursan was appealing - people could do it on the overlooked professions with out the "noob" callers.

And as for joining a guild, maybe not everyone wants to leave a guild that has their friends just to do certain areas in the game.

So yeah, in any case, the overall thing is the attitudes of the players - being more open on things (ex. taking some other profession that isn't in the norm) and to people. Sure, some people can have horrid skill bars. Perhaps they don't know any better and could use some constructive criticism. In the long run, if they take those suggestions to heart, that will help them become a better player. And if everyone did that, the atmosphere in the game would be much improved.

Just my 2¢.

Trub · Aug 19, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowhaze

Nerfs, buffs, and all that stuff isn't really the main problem in the game as far as I can see. Overall, people just need to lose the "noob" and "elitest" mentalities and be more open to things and people. Enjoy the game and have fun.

Someone pings a build you don't like, give them suggestions instead of calling them a "noob" and booting them off the bat. Give them a chance. If they refuse to listen or behave like a jerk, then do something.

I'm glad I have more than just one char, so I have a better chance of finding groups, since my main character isn't one of the "trinity." Not everyone has one of the three, which is annoying if they want to do something and end up getting called names. That's one reason Ursan was appealing - people could do it on the overlooked professions with out the "noob" callers.

And as for joining a guild, maybe not everyone wants to leave a guild that has their friends just to do certain areas in the game.

So yeah, in any case, the overall thing is the attitudes of the players - being more open on things (ex. taking some other profession that isn't in the norm) and to people. Sure, some people can have horrid skill bars. Perhaps they don't know any better and could use some constructive criticism. In the long run, if they take those suggestions to heart, that will help them become a better player. And if everyone did that, the atmosphere in the game would be much improved.

Just my 2¢.

This is the crux of it all...right there.
Many want to 'fit in'...many want to have the right skills, items, guild....but they don't.
Many haven't put forth the effort to gain these thngs either.
Try having a civil discussion with a 12-15yr old kid that thinks their build 'pwns face'.
Try to take a 12-15yr old PuG into an elite area, and have them aggro every red dot for laughs.
Good fun..I think not.
Guilds were created to give players the variety they want...with less experienced players hopefully learning from the more seasoned ones.
I have an open mind....but when it comes to a player not listening, adapting their skill bar to an area, or bad mouthing the team as a whole...they have no place on my team, and are booted without another word spoken.

Shadowhaze · Aug 19, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

This is the crux of it all...right there.
Many want to 'fit in'...many want to have the right skills, items, guild....but they don't.
Many haven't put forth the effort to gain these thngs either.
Try having a civil discussion with a 12-15yr old kid that thinks their build 'pwns face'.
Try to take a 12-15yr old PuG into an elite area, and have them aggro every red dot for laughs.
Good fun..I think not.
Guilds were created to give players the variety they want...with less experienced players hopefully learning from the more seasoned ones.
I have an open mind....but when it comes to a player not listening, adapting their skill bar to an area, or bad mouthing the team as a whole...they have no place on my team, and are booted without another word spoken.

Yep, that's why I said in the second lil blurb if something like that happens do something about it then (such as kicking them or whatnot).

Chances are if they don't take advice graciously, they won't bother being a team player. And it depends on the maturity (not speaking in terms of age) of the player.

Abedeus · Aug 19, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Try having a civil discussion with a 12-15yr old kid that thinks their build 'pwns face'.
Try to take a 12-15yr old PuG into an elite area, and have them aggro every red dot for laughs.

Yet again I feel sadgasm ;[ *cut cut cut*

Quote:

Someone pings a build you don't like, give them suggestions instead of calling them a "noob" and booting them off the bat. Give them a chance. If they refuse to listen or behave like a jerk, then do something.

Do something in my case means = leave from group and never group again. But, I don't PuG anyway.

One thing I don't like is saying someone XX years old is superior to someone YY years old. But it is okay to say someone from group ŹŹ acts like he's ŁŁ years old. Same as it's not okay to make fun of people's country, but it is okay to make fun of where they live. Country-wise, of course.

Trub · Aug 19, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Yet again I feel sadgasm ;[ *cut cut cut*

Do something in my case means = leave from group and never group again. But, I don't PuG anyway.

One thing I don't like is saying someone XX years old is superior to someone YY years old. But it is okay to say someone from group ŹŹ acts like he's ŁŁ years old. Same as it's not okay to make fun of people's country, but it is okay to make fun of where they live. Country-wise, of course.

I used the age factor as an example..I imagine there are more mature teen agers out there than say, someone in their mid 20's..but that isn't my point.
*nibbles your avatar for drama*
My point is, some younger-minded players don't want to listen to anyone that, in their eyes, say "YOUR build won't work in <insert area here.>....try this.
For some reason they go nuts, and come QQ on a games forum.

the_jos · Aug 19, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowhaze

Someone pings a build you don't like, give them suggestions instead of calling them a "noob" and booting them off the bat. Give them a chance. If they refuse to listen or behave like a jerk, then do something.
...
So yeah, in any case, the overall thing is the attitudes of the players - being more open on things (ex. taking some other profession that isn't in the norm) and to people. Sure, some people can have horrid skill bars. Perhaps they don't know any better and could use some constructive criticism. In the long run, if they take those suggestions to heart, that will help them become a better player. And if everyone did that, the atmosphere in the game would be much improved.

This depends.
For example, if I have a 7/8 team which needs a specific profession with a specific build there is not much room for someone who does not have those skills. An other example, recently I ran a 'random' team in FoW. But random means filling some gaps, so I expect players to have skills to fill those gaps.
And players joining shouldn't aim for a fast run

Then there is the player's build. I don't mind someone running an odd build. But (s)he should be able to tell me why it would work and enhance the team.
Else they are back to basic builds or out of the team.

Last there is the education of players.
If I go to the elite areas I don't want to explain players the basic game mechanics. Sure, someone might not have been in such an area before and I don't mind explaining the specifics. But I don't want to explain to a caster why he shouldn't be the first to aggro an Abyssal except when I expect him to do just that. Or that same caster standing in Maelstrom wondering why his spells fail. Or a warrior running back to the group dragging aggro all over without reason.
Or why a W/R with barrage/pet would probably not be the best build to run as warrior. Even with a zealous bow.... Save those builds for regular PvE and learn why they most likely are not as efficient as more warrior spec-ed builds.

I don't mind inexperienced players or odd builds but be honest about it.
If you only have prophecies I'll fully understand you can't bring SF as elite. And can probably make a build with regular skills to support the team.
But a limited number of skills unlocked (ping several builds and all fail to load more then half of the skills each time) means a no-go.
You probably don't understand you profession enough to not be a burden on the run.

Kusandaa · Aug 19, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowhaze

Yep, that's why I said in the second lil blurb if something like that happens do something about it then (such as kicking them or whatnot).

Chances are if they don't take advice graciously, they won't bother being a team player. And it depends on the maturity (not speaking in terms of age) of the player.

I've seen some people open to new ideas, but there are experiences that will simply kill me and I'll end up kicking the guy.

I took a couple friends in FoW yesterday and we brought this warrior... Lenny you'll remember this.
- Warrior comes in, pings 2 builds: a decent DSlash build and a solo W/Rt.
- We ask him to bring the DSlash build.
- Warrior pings us Heal sig, Sprint. "wat u want?"
- We ask him to go DSlash. Twice.

Everyone's ready, including the warrior, and we go in. What happens next?
- We map in FoW, first group dies fast. Second group.
- When Rastigan rushes in, we notice the warrior is AFK. "Damnit." But he's now dead.
- First tower is cleared, guy gets res'ed. Our monk is running Unyielding Aura.
- We go all the way to battlefield, guy is STILL AFK... and STILL dying. Guild had figured out why by then, but I don't wanna tell the punch yet. He's obviously leeching though.
- He gets res'ed and well, dies again.
- In the end... We got him killed, then we went suicidal.

The dumbass warrior was leeching WITH A VAMP WEAPON ON.

====

Even if you take advice, some people are still pretty dumb

. The dude was obviously not a team player but in TOA, he was complying fairly easily, other than the thing with not listening at first. Inside though, just like any other leecher...

Snow Bunny · Aug 19, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

I doubt that a lot of people quit playing due to the Ursan nerf.

If many of you have looked around elite areas at all, they're all back to tank n' spank, with the exception of the occasional guild groups running more versatile builds.

PvE always has a meta that plays to the lowest common denominator. The irk of it is that most players don't want to learn.

Most players out there still believe tank n' spank is the best, that Searing Flames is a good skill in HM, and that powerhealing with 350+ heals from dwaynas kiss is the way to monk.

Most players don't want to learn. If they did they wouldn't be telling me in ToA that my paragon sucks.

Oh, and Ursan breeded enough elitism to match Heroes' Ascent. Ursan's reliance on a title progression automatically bred its own more of elitism.

Tearz1993 · Aug 19, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Oh, and Ursan breeded enough elitism to match Heroes' Ascent. Ursan's reliance on a title progression automatically bred its own more of elitism.

Except that in Heroes' Ascent, people are trying to get their title higher, where ursan if you're title isn't maxed, you can't play at all.

persuadu · Aug 19, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

If Ursan nerf drives people out of the game, then it's GG ANET. The more elitist noobs leave, the better for both the game and the community.

Understand, I am not completely against the nerf, but also understand that it is NOT driving out the elite, it is driving out the average. Elitists Snobs love to hear that, but ultimately it is bad for overall game play.

Go to DOA, its empty, go to TOA, its all Ele and Sin.

How does this get more people into groups and stop the grind? (which is what anet said the nerf was about)

It doesn't. It made far less groups to get into and it made these runs even more meta than before.

The concept that the Ursan Nerf was supposed to be more inclusive actually made it more EXCLUSIVE.

The less people play, the worse the game gets, the less word of mouth advertising for the game, the less new players, less money for Anet, the less R&D they can put into the game... You see it all goes down hill and belive it or not, this game is driven by revenue moreso than "taking care of players". Anet already has your money, they only make money by getting new players.

If you want this evironment to be relatively empty and just play with your friends list and Guild Roster, then celebrate, because this is a step in that direction. Oh, and wait to see what happens to the market when people stop playing, even the average and low end folks.

GG! QQ!

Shursh · Aug 19, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

If you want this evironment to be relatively empty and just play with your friends list and Guild Roster, then celebrate, because this is a step in that direction. Oh, and wait to see what happens to the market when people stop playing, even the average and low end folks.

GG! QQ!

This is exactly the type of mentality that causes such areas to be empty.

and the economy is on the rise. ecto prices (as an example) are nearly back to what they were pre-SF buff. but sure, if you want to put a prophetic ceiling on their price, be my guest. it's not like i have many of them

Jenn · Aug 19, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

powerhealing with 350+ heals from dwaynas kiss is the way to monk

I'll be honest, I think I get a little wet when I kiss someone for 500+ hp. How can you not? There's more to monking, I know, but on a healing, or even WoH/hybrid, I don't think I could find too good a reason to omit D-Kiss.

As for tank n' spank, it can be overrated when using SF, but I get all warm and fuzzy on the inside when SS + Splinter Barrage blows everything up faster than a pile of melee. Everyone seems to be hating on the tank n' spank method because it has SF associated with it, which is unfortunate. I think it's one hell of a terrible idea to have a few melee classes whacking different stuff with a R/Rt in the party - they're not nearly maximizing their potential. At that point, either the frontline has to change, or the midline does. IMO you do what works best with what you have, regardless of some silly stupid label that people have put on it.

Snow Bunny · Aug 19, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

I'll be honest, I think I get a little wet when I kiss someone for 500+ hp. How can you not? There's more to monking, I know, but on a healing, or even WoH/hybrid, I don't think I could find too good a reason to omit D-Kiss.

As for tank n' spank, it can be overrated when using SF, but I get all warm and fuzzy on the inside when SS + Splinter Barrage blows everything up faster than a pile of melee. Everyone seems to be hating on the tank n' spank method because it has SF associated with it, which is unfortunate. I think it's one hell of a terrible idea to have a few melee classes whacking different stuff with a R/Rt in the party - they're not nearly maximizing their potential. At that point, either the frontline has to change, or the midline does. IMO you do what works best with what you have, regardless of some silly stupid label that people have put on it.

You do enjoy nitpicking my posts, don't you?

500+ heals with DKiss are hawt, but when your entire bar is devoted to that with seed of life and healing seed, with no thought of SoA or PS, then you're monking poorly.

Also, tank and spank with most pugs doesn't involve splinter weapon, seeing as they all believe it got nerfed to hell. (lol)

Loot Junkie · Aug 19, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Why oh why do pve monks think that outhealing damage is the way to monk? I heard that [aegis] and [protective spirit] was gud

glacialphoenix · Aug 19, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

^
I suspect Aegis and PS will be making a huge comeback after Ursan nerf. I personally <3 both of them, but I think monking got dragged along with Ursan. Just like how many PUGs demanded only a certain rank of Ursan, most of them also demanded a particular monk bar (HB, with the two seeds) which favoured outhealing damage rather than preventing or negating it.

So you're pretty much getting the monk version of all the Ursan complaints. If they're smart, they'll adapt. If they can't adapt and are hellbent on sticking to the same old bar, they probably won't be playing monk for much longer.